Participants:
PrabhupādaDevoteeDevoteesDr. PatelHarikeśaIndian manJagat-puruṣaKīrtanānandaLokanāthaSaurabhaŚrīdhara
Dr. Patel: But we are sitting here [Hindi].
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] The experiment with truth [Hindi]. What is the experiment with truth? [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: You have taken that tablet for passing more urine?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Daily or..., yes or no.
Prabhupāda: I am passing. [laughs]
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but you have got the edema on the leg, and I mean, when...
Prabhupāda: It is cured. That one tablet, two tablets, has cured. So explain what is the experiment with truth.
Dr. Patel: Now we must make... I have booked a visit at 7:15.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: At 7:15 I have booked a visit.
Prabhupāda: So...
Dr. Patel: Hah, tell me what is your...
Prabhupāda: No, what is this experiment with truth?
Dr. Patel: About what?
Prabhupāda: Anything. The world.
Dr. Patel: There are two types of experiments, sir, according to me. I may be wrong, and I am open to correction. One experimentation with the crude world; another experiment with your own mind. Which type of experiment we want?
Prabhupāda: No, mind we reject immediately.
Dr. Patel: How?
Prabhupāda: Because it is not truth. It is accepting, it is rejecting.
Dr. Patel: Man sai eva [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Mind's business is to accept and reject. Therefore it is not truth.
Dr. Patel: Only by mind and concentration of the mind you get the truth.
Prabhupāda: Concentration is different thing.
Dr. Patel: But that is also of what? Of the mind.
Prabhupāda: The mind, when you concentrate the mind to the truth, then it is all right.
Dr. Patel: That is what I say. By concentration of the mind you get the truth. That is the right.
Prabhupāda: Mind is not truth.
Dr. Patel: Mind is not truth, but by mind we get at the truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We can direct our mind towards truth.
Dr. Patel: I did not mean mind is truth. All that is made up of māyā. All that is made up of, I mean, mahā-tattva and down below, are all falsehood.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, experiment with truth is not experiment with the mind. So what is that truth, and what is that experiment?
Dr. Patel: What is... First of all, let us know what is mind by experiment.
Prabhupāda: Experiment means to examine whether it is truth or not.
Dr. Patel: That examines..., who examines and what? Who examines the mind, man's mind? After all, no? And examination of anything depends upon the state of the mind, sir, according to the psychology. The more concentrated the mind, better it will be nearer the truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right...
Dr. Patel: That is what I say.
Prabhupāda: ...but, my point is...
Dr. Patel: See, experiment depends upon all that.
Prabhupāda: ...if there is truth, where is the scope of experiment?
Dr. Patel: I mean, that you want to..., you want to hit at that point, then you are absolutely right; there is no experiment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contradiction. If you say "truth," there is no question of experiment. That I... Try to understand. It is contradiction.
Dr. Patel: By all these jñāni-yogīs... I mean you are a bhakti-yogī, but I talk of jñāna-yogīs.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna-yoga is also truth if you follow. Just like dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā [Bhāg. 12.13.1]. So that is truth. But when there is question of experiment, that is not truth. That is my point.
Dr. Patel: When they are making experiment in an area which is not already known.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means that that is not truth. So experiment with truth cannot be; this is contradiction.
Dr. Patel: No, you are right that way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But your how..., ask the question in a puzzling way to me. So I...
Prabhupāda: No, I ask you that how this experiment with truth can be possible?
Dr. Patel: The experiment with sciences, we are making experiment with biological sciences and abstract, I mean sciences of physics and chemistry, and that those who are truths already, we are trying to honor. We cannot make truths. Truths are there already settled by God. God... We try to find out what is exactly, and how it is being done. But we are not trying to find out who is doing. That is your point. I understand.
Prabhupāda: No. If the truth is there, there is no question of experiment.
Dr. Patel: We are experimenting to find out the truth. Truth is there, no doubt. My house is there, sir, but you may go this way or that way, that way. We are making experiment to go to my house.
Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is the truth.
Dr. Patel: Truth is there, but we do not know the truth. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.
Dr. Patel: We are making experiment to..., experiment by which way will lead to the truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: The experiment means repeat, with regard to the matter of finding out the truth. Not with the truth itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the word means... "Experiment with truth," that is contradiction. There cannot be any experiment with truth. Truth is truth.
Dr. Patel: Truth cannot be experimented upon.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...
Dr. Patel: That I quite agree with you, and I become your chela in that respect. But so far as the method of finding out truth, that I have experimentation.
Prabhupāda: That can be done. That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: All our physical sciences...
Prabhupāda: Another thing...
Dr. Patel: I mean, ah, I mean, ah...
Prabhupāda: [to passerby] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. [Hindi: Are you all right?]
Dr. Patel: All these sciences, mathematics, chemistry, physics, they have really been advanced by experimentation only. Because we did not know what truth is behind all these natural phenomena, and we tried to find out the real..., how the natural phenomena are, I mean, happening, and that is what the experimentation of the human race was searching out the truth...
Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam [Bg. 13.12]. Tattva-jñānārtham darśanam.
Dr. Patel: But these truths, sir, are approached, I mean actually realized, by various ways. The, I mean the jñāna-yogīs or yogīs, what you call, they realize it, I mean, because the jñānis, they become, by concentration of their mind on the truth, they, that which is highest truth, or God. They are after all trying...
Prabhupāda: The yogīs, they have already found the truth. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginam [Bhāg. 12.13.1]. So they have already found out the truth, and they are concentrating. That is not experiment. They have already known.
Dr. Patel: But I don't say they have experimented on the truth, sir. I think I am not making myself more clear to you. What I meant to say is they have experimented by concentration of the mind to find out the truth, and they realize the truth that way.
Prabhupāda: No. Realize, that's a fact. Now they are acting, by... Tad-gatena manasā, mind is fixed up in Supersoul, Paramātmā. That is yoga.
Dr. Patel: Yes. You mean to say, hmm, that...
Prabhupāda: They have already realized truth..
Dr. Patel: Yes. Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati, he is just like... All the knowledge of God is imbibed within.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is concentrated. Just like our bhakti. Bhakti means we know, "Here is God: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [Bhāg. 1.3.28]." So there is no question of experimenting. Now we have known, we are concentrating how to satisfy Him. There is no question of experimentation.
Dr. Patel: But the physical scientists' method, chemistry, biology, is, I mean, this physics, they have to experiment in their... They are nothing but the finding out the truth behind the phenomenon, the material phenomenon. That is what I mean.
Prabhupāda: Phenomenon is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra—sometimes here, sometimes there.
Dr. Patel: Yes, right, sir. But why the samudra changes? We go into there, into deep depth of that...
Prabhupāda: That is truth. That is truth. By the yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro [Bs. 5.52], that is truth. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. That is truth. The phenomena, that is changing. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].
Dr. Patel: [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: All right. Thank you very much. Jaya. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: Are you going tomorrow?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Tomorrow at what time?
Prabhupāda: I do not know. What time?
Saurabha: What time, Harikeśa?
Harikeśa: Actually, nobody knows.
Dr. Patel: Tomorrow is Christmas day. You are going on twenty-seventh.
Prabhupāda: No, twenty-fifth.
Kīrtanānanda: Somebody said you were going at noon.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: Someone told me you were going at noon.
Harikeśa: I don't think anyone knows yet.
Kīrtanānanda: Why is that?
Harikeśa: Haven't bought the tickets yet.
Kīrtanānanda: No reservations yet?
Prabhupāda: [hums] [pause] All right just to understand? If truth is there, there is no question of experiment. And if the experiment is there, that is not truth.
Kīrtanānanda: Perfectly logical.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: That is correct.
Prabhupāda: It is contradictory.
Lokanātha: Their experiments are just only speculation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtanānanda: One wants to experiment, it means they don't know what is truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there is experiment, there is no truth. And if there is truth, there is no experiment.
Kīrtanānanda: One simply accepts the truth.
Prabhupāda: Truth, we accept or not accept: truth is truth. Huh? There is a father. That is a truth. You may not know who is your father, that is another thing. But this is a fact, there is father.
Lokanātha: You have said many times that when mother says, "This is your father," you just accept it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is truth.
Lokanātha: We do not go for experimenting, other it is possible to find out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no question of experimenting whether he is my father. You take the truth from the mother, and that's final. [break] ...being more and more convinced, why Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]? Huh? Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is within these groups, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. That is being more and more confirmed.
Kīrtanānanda: They may appear like learned men or they may appear like...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: They may appear like moral men or learned men, but still they are...
Prabhupāda: Not...
Kīrtanānanda: ...rascals.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, yes. Therefore it begins in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [1.1.1]. The beginning is truth. Satyam paraṁ dhīmahi. There is no question of experiment. It is not this book, Bhāgavata, is an experiment to find out truth. It is beginning from the truth. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi.
Lokanātha: What is sādhana-bhakti if it is not experimental?
Prabhupāda: Sādhana-bhakti is practicing. Truth is there, but how to be intimately connected with truth, that is sādhana.
Lokanātha: So sometime we say to karmīs that "Why don't you make an experiment, just try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, make an experiment, and you will realize it."
Prabhupāda: Because he does not know; therefore we suggest experiment. He does not know.
Lokanātha: So we ask him to perform the...
Prabhupāda: Ah, that means, my proposition is that one who does not know, for him experiment. One who knows, there is no experiment.
Lokanātha: But there is...
Prabhupāda: You are asking, requesting him to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, but this is not experiment for me, it is experiment for him. He does not know; therefore you are suggesting, "You do like this, and you will understand."
Jagat-puruṣa: They are conditioned to make experiments.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jagat-puruṣa: So they can dovetail that conditioning.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of experimenting, but he does not know; he is giving chance, "All right, try like this." But truth is there. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Oh, the water has gone this way. [Hindi conversation about the tide]
Śrīdhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, people can understand that the truth is already there, but they can't understand how by meditating on one particular person or thing, all other truths automatically become realized. They want to experiment to find out what is the unlimited truth.
Prabhupāda: Let them experiment, because he does not know the truth perfectly well.
Śrīdhara: So just by meditating upon the person Kṛṣṇa, all other truth becomes known?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtanānanda: Prabhupāda doesn't say that no one can experiment.
Prabhupāda: There are some animals, they do not actually touch the egg—birds. Or the, I think, what is called, tortoise. They simply concentrate, and the egg comes into being.
Lokanātha: But actually if you hear the truth, there is no need to make an experiment at all. Isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is perfect experiment.
Lokanātha: That is..., that happens with full śraddhā. When there is unflinching faith, he will not go for making the experiment. [break]
Kīrtanānanda: [referring to people exercising on beach] ...come and dance at āratik?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Kīrtanānanda: If they want to swing their arms, why not come to ārati and dance? In 1966, Prabhupāda, we went up to Dr. Mishra's āśrama upstate. And there was some yogī from the New York Institute there, and he said that "Automatically, just see these devotees, automatically they are doing everything that we are teaching, just by this one process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: That is the statement by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ihā haite sarva-siddhi haibe sabāra. [C.b. Madhya 23.78] By practicing this chanting, you'll get all perfection.
Kīrtanānanda: One morning we were out walking in a sunrise, and Hayagrīva pointed, "Oh, there's a very beautiful sunrise," and you said, "Oh, the sunrise is not very wonderful, but He who has made it is wonderful."
Prabhupāda: The point is, they glorify the scientists, another scientist, but they are so fool they do not glorify who has made that brain. You cannot make that brain. [break]
Indian man: ...I told him it might be that [indistinct] this janma they have not done all these things, go to Kṛṣṇa temple, coming back, nine thirty, ten o'clock. Then take all this train...
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's favor. Yes. Kṛṣṇa is favoring to finish this job.
Indian man: Now we know that janma is... I told him they may not be having many other janma, that may be why they are suffering like this now.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no suffering. Their material existence is being reduced on account of serving Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man: One lady is there now in Bombay, whole family, old lady, young children die.
Prabhupāda: Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ [Bhāg. 10.88.8]. This is special favor of Kṛṣṇa, because they, by this pious activity, they wanted this material enjoyment, which you are complaining, that they are reducing material enjoyment. But that is Kṛṣṇa's favor. He doesn't want reduction of material enjoyment; at the same time, they want to worship Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is seeing that these fools, they want Me, and at the same time material enjoyment. So "Finish their material enjoyment; they will simply think of Me."
bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
tayāpahṛta-cetasāṁ
vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
samādhau na vidhīyate
[Bg. 2.44]
tayāpahṛta-cetasāṁ
vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
samādhau na vidhīyate
[Bg. 2.44]
So long one will be too much absorbed in this material enjoyment, he cannot be perfectly devotee. Therefore sometimes Kṛṣṇa, when He sees, "Someone is serious to get Me," and at the same time she wants material enjoyment, so indirectly or directly He finishes the material enjoyment. That is a special favor.
Kīrtanānanda: [referring to passerby] The dogs are taking the lady for a walk.
Lokanātha: The man's body is made up of kapha, pitta, vāyu, and woman's body also has the same ingredients.
Prabhupāda: Everybody.
Lokanātha: So then what is basic difference between human body, I mean man's body and woman's body, which attracts each other? What is that attraction due to?
Prabhupāda: Because if you want to be attracted, God has made in such a way that both of them are attractive to one another. That's all. You want to be attracted; therefore woman is made attractive. And the woman wants to be attracted; the man is attractive. This is nature's arrangement so that you may be bound up by this attraction. Tayor miṭha hṛdaya-granthiḥ mām. You are already bound up, and by this attraction you will be more tightly bound up. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithuni-bhāvam etad. The whole material attraction means a man's attraction for woman and a woman's attraction for man. But when they are seeking, "Where is woman? Where is woman? Where is woman?" and the woman is seeking, they come here to make this business. Huh? And when they are actually attracted or united, then this bondage, material bondage, will become more tight. Therefore the Vedic civilization is how to slacken it, and ultimately, by force, separation, sannyāsa. That is required. Because unless they are separated, there cannot be any spiritual advancement. That is the whole process. The unity is bondage. I have written a letter that man is good, woman is good, and when they are united, they are bad. [laughs] Both of them are bad. And the material world is taking, "This is the best thing." But actually that is not the thing. Man is good, because he is part and parcel of God; woman is good, part and parcel of God; but when they unite, they become bad. Tayor miṭhādi hṛdayanti-māho.
Lokanātha: For detachment you suggest they remain separate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for few days..., few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life, vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.
Lokanātha: So when they are gṛhastha, they make advancement?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? That advancement is not very solid. But there is advancement; that is not very solid.
Śrīdhara: Without sex pleasure a man and a woman would not be attracted to one another.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Attraction means that sex. There is no other thing. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedī sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the psychology. There is no other happiness. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhī sukhaṁ hi tuccham [Bhāg. 7.9.45]. Their happiness is based on the center of sex pleasure.
Śrīdhara: So the body of a woman only reminds of the sex pleasure.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Body of man or woman. The same thing. This is the only pleasure. In this material world, so-called pleasure means sex pleasure. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the center.
Lokanātha: They say, "We want to come together to serve the Lord." Is that excuse or is that...
Prabhupāda: Together they go to hell. [laughs]
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in your Society, if sometimes householder devotee, they do very big, big job, I mean they are advanced then?
Prabhupāda: Who has done that big job? Hmm? You have done?
Devotee: Well, we see all the big these GBC, and they are doing very nicely, like Saurabha dāsa and Mūrti dāsa.
Prabhupāda: They are sannyāsī. Saurabha is sannyāsī. His wife, does she live with him?
Kīrtanānanda: The same principle is there for everyone, in so far as one becomes detached, then he's sannyasī.
Prabhupāda: Yes, sannyāsa. Detachment required.
Kīrtanānanda: It is not a matter of cloth.
Prabhupāda: No. Sa sannyāsī. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. He has no attachment for this eating, sleeping, mating. He is attached to Kṛṣṇa. And that is sannyāsī. Sannyāsī does not means dress. Detached. Sat sannyāsī. Sat, oṁ tat sat, the supreme, and for Him everything, risk all. That is sannyāsī. Anāsaktya... What is that? In the Bhagavad-gītā there is?
Indian man: Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma...
Prabhupāda: Ah, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ sa sannyāsī... [Bg. 6.1]. One who does not take the reward of his labor, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karam-phalaṁ. Everyone works for some profit, and one who does not take the profit, works for Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryam. Kāryam means it is my duty to work for Kṛṣṇa. In this way one works, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca. He is yogī also. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He is fighting not for himself; for himself he declined to fight. But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants, "All right, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. I shall fight. I shall kill my grandfather and everyone." This is sannyāsī.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that if a devotee is sincerely serving the Lord, and Kṛṣṇa takes away his all his material opulence, and still if he's sincerely serving the Lord, the Lord becomes his intimate servant, He says.
Prabhupāda: Intimate servant?
Devotee: Yes. In one purport in Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
Prabhupāda: Is there "servant," this word is used?
Devotee: Becomes his friend.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. [break] ...stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, that there are gṛhasthas, they are not attached to gṛhastha. They actually, they are attached for Kṛṣṇa, but maybe for convenience sake he remains a gṛhastha. Gṛhastha, there are two words: gṛhastha and gṛhamedhī. One who is gṛhamedhī, he is hopeless. One who is gṛhastha, that is all right. [end]
Raja Sahib, Gentlemen, there is one difficulty for me, I cannot speak Gujarati at all and Hindi also I cannot speak very correctly. Anyways, all of you excuse me. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that we have created, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the aim of this is that all over the world the people are mistaken, what are they mistaken about? They think that by generating lots of money and indulging in sense gratification, I will be very happy in that. This is going on all over the world. Get money somehow and enjoy. In the western world this is called hedonism. Eat drink be merry and enjoy. [Interruption] You sit down!
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, about 500 years ago, this sankirtan movement, the preaching of the holy names of the Lord, there is no difference between the Lord and His name. Nāma-cintāmaṇi kṛṣṇa, the scriptures say that name of the Lord Kṛṣṇa and the name of the Lord Rāma, these are God Himself.
Nāma-cintāmaṇi kṛṣṇa, caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ.
Just like the Lord, in the deity form is fully spiritual, similarly the name of the Lord that is also completely spiritual.
Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇa caitanya-rasa-vigrahah
To understand this better the scriptures say,
Pūrṇaḥśuddho nitya-mukto 'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
We should not think that God is bigger than His name or the name is smaller, no! Just like name, just like God is all powerful, His name is also all powerful.
nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 2]
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 2]
The name of the Lord has all the potencies of the Lord himself, if we are able to chant them offenselessly. There are three stages of chanting the holy names of the Lord--nāma-aparādha, Nāmābhāsa, śuddha-nāma. nāma-aparādha, at first we commit a lot of offenses that, a lot of people think that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or chanting the names of Durga or Kali, or the names of any demigod, it is the same thing. This is nāma-aparādha. The scriptures say, Harer nāma, Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, not any other name. Harer nāma! People think mistakenly that one can chant any name and they say that you can chant these names. But it is not according to the guidelines of the scriptures. Harer nāma,
Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam,
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.
In kaliyuga all the people are very fallen, sinful. The symptoms of kaliyuga are described in the Twelfth Canto of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, it matches now. There is one word mentioned there, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam [Bhāg. 12.2.6]. In kaliyuga men will think that having long hair makes them more beautiful. You can all see that nowadays the youth keep long hair. They think that, 'I am very beautiful now. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. But this is a symptom of kaliyuga. There are many more like this. dām-patye ratim eva hi, that the relationship between man and woman, husband and wife will be all right till they are satisfied sexually. dām-patye ratim eva hi, the proof of this can be seen widely in the western countries. If they are a bit unsatisfied in their sense gratification (sex), then they divorce. So the scriptures say, dām-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sūtram eva hi [Bhāg. 12.2.3], what kind of brāhmaṇa’s remain now? They buy a two-paisa worth thread and wear it, that’s all. And all the brahmanical qualities like śama dama titikṣāārjava.
jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
This is all said in Gita, you all know this. All this śama dama goes into the fire, just wearing a two-paisa worth thread and become a brāhmaṇa. These are all the symptoms of kaliyuga, it is written. And āyuḥ, medhā, Dayā and dharma--all these will completely vanish. There are elaborate explanations of the kaliyuga, if you read Bhāgavatam, twelfth Canto, third chapter, it is all mentioned. That is why Caitanya Mahāprabhu, says according to the scriptures, that,
Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam,
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
In kaliyuga this is the only path that can take you from this material world to the spiritual world of the Lord. Man does not know what is the aim of human life, he is that sinful now!
Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
He was like that before also but to a lesser extent. Just like before also there was Rāvaṇa who went in the garb of a sanyasi to kidnap Sītā. So nowadays this has become more. At that time there was only one sanyasi like Rāvaṇa whom we could meet, who went in the garb of a sanyas to kidnap another man’s wife. Nowadays you can find many such Rāvaṇa’s. So this is kaliyuga. One more symptom of kaliyuga is mentioned in the scriptures that,
Prāyeṇa alpa āyuṣaḥ kalau asmin yuge janāḥ
mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ
mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ
What are the inconveniences has also been stated. Durbhikṣa, karopī[?] [Bhāg. 12.2.9] On one hand there will be scarcity of food and on the other hand the government will impose heavy taxes. Durbhikṣa, karopī[?] Men will be fed up, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam, [Bhāg. 12.2.8] the scriptures have given descriptions of the miserable conditions that will prevail in the kaliyuga and the solution is also given. In kaliyuga there is only solution to make life successful, this has been said by Śukadeva Gosvāmī,
kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann
asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya
mukte-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya
mukte-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
There are a lot of narrations are given in the scriptures and according to that this Hare Krishna movement is being spread all over the world by me and we are getting some results also. You can see that these European, American boys, girls and even children, you can see in front of your eyes. Even one-year-old children are dancing. This is such a thing. This is not artificial, it is natural.
nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
[Madhya 22.107]
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
[Madhya 22.107]
Devotional service for Lord Kṛṣṇa is not something that needs to be taught. It is already within the heart of everyone. nitya-siddha, perpetually. Because we are very closely related to the Lord. Just like father and son, the relation of the son with his father is very close. Even if for a very long time the father or son are separated and living abroad even then when they meet after a long time, the love between the father and son is unbreakable. Similarly, our relationship with the Lord is unbreakable but in kaliyuga due to sinful activities it is covered over.
We need to awaken this, nothing else. ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, to awaken that, darpaṇa means mirror in which all of you see yourselves. That has become covered with dirt. That has to be cleaned, the heart has to be cleaned. That is why we are Krishna consciousness, kṛṣṇa-bhāvanāmṛta. We have a lot of thoughts, we think about a lot of things, we think and work. We cannot be without thinking for even a second. We need to purify that thinking, by thinking only about Kṛṣṇa, that’s all, life will be successful. This is called kṛṣṇa-bhāvanāmṛta.
Śrīla Rūpa Goswāmī has said,
kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ
krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate
[Padyāvalī 14]
krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate
[Padyāvalī 14]
Śrīla Rūpa Goswāmī has said that if you can buy this Krishna consciousness anywhere then you purchase it without any delay.
kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ
krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate
krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate
To buy this do we need to pay a price? Yes!! That is also said,
tatra laulyam api mūlyam ekalaṁ
If you become a bit greedy for Kṛṣṇa, that you want to attain Kṛṣṇa in this very lifetime, just like, we are greedy for money, we are greedy for a beautiful woman, in the same way if we are greedy for Kṛṣṇa then our life will be successful. This is the procedure, this is what we are teaching. The Lord has also said in the Bhagavad-gita,
mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
To be greedy about the Lord, attachment, just like we are attached to this material world, to wealth, to woman, to designations, this we want, this is attachment. In the same way if we become attached to the Lord then our life will be successful. This is what is Krishna consciousness movement, as to how to have attachment for Kṛṣṇa instead of the world, that is our preaching, nothing else. So the Lord has himself said, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ, this is a yoga.
How to become attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, this is devotional service. How to execute this devotional service has been recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja long ago,
śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
Where is water? Now you shall go for water!
This hearing is of primary importance, hearing the names of the Lord, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi [Padma Purāṇa]. This hearing of the name hare kṛṣṇa. We start with the hearing of this name. If we concentrate only on hearing, just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Parīkṣit Mahārāja had seven day left before he would die. So he only heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrī-viṣṇoḥśravaṇe parīkṣid, Parīkṣit Mahārāja sat down and only heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Śukadeva Gosvāmī simply glorified the Lord. These are items one by one, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ.
Even if you hear the names of the Lord, this is the effect of kaliyuga that there are hindrances to even hearing the names of the Lord. Just sit down and listen peacefully to the names of the Lord and his glories, we can’t set our mind to that even. That is why through hearing only we can rein in our mind. Scriptures say, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. At first it does not feel all right. Just like if a person is suffering from jaundice, if you give him sugar candy he will say it is distasteful, bitter but because of jaundice, everyone know sugar candy is sweet but it is bitter to his tongue. But sugar candy is the only solution for curing jaundice. So by eating this sugar candy over a period of time, one will find that same sugar candy to be sweet. Similarly this chanting of the holy name of the Lord, this disease of the material world, because of this disease we don’t have a taste for the holy names. But this is the only cure for this disease, nothing else.
harer nāma harer nāma
harer nāmaiva kevalam
harer nāmaiva kevalam
So by force, we have to fix our mind. This is sādhana, practice.
abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā
[Bg. 8.8]
[Bg. 8.8]
For one whose mind is impetuous, he should engage in practicing this yoga. This is called austerity. Human life is meant for performing austerities. It should not be like that of dogs and hogs. Just like the dogs and hogs they work hard all day long for some food. This is the situation now in kaliyuga that for two pieces of bread, man is working hard like an ass, pulls carts, both man and woman. Is this the job of a human being? But this is happening in kaliyuga and there’s more to come. For two-paisa your son will stab you in your heart. All this time is coming. Just for two-paisa, all this is written in the Bhāgavatam. The times are going to be very bad. And there is only for solution for this,
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.
These are scriptural injunctions. So it is our request be in any situation but chant the holy names of the Lord. There is no loss for you in doing this. And if you think there is no benefit, there is lot of benefit but you don’t know. Anyways, there is no loss. If you are walking in the road and if you
Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
If you chant these names then what will you lose? You will know the benefits later on but there is no loss now and to chant the Lord’s name and glories there is not much effort required. So this is our request. Stay anywhere, in any situation, stay anywhere in this material world. See these Americans and Europeans they are neither Hindu nor are they from India. They have taken birth in so many different places. Why do they chant? Is it difficult to chant the names? No! It is not difficult nor is there any loss. But if you chant the names all the dirt that has accumulated in your heart, will be cleansed. ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And our difficulty in this material world, we do not understand the real difficulty at all.
Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam
The Lord… So, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, when the heart is cleansed, just like we have the mirror, if there is dirt on it you clean it, so that you can see your beautiful face in it. Similarly the more you chant hare kṛṣṇa, hare kṛṣṇa, your heart will be cleansed, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And you will yourself come to know as to why we are working so hard in this material world. I do not want to die, why do I have to? I do not want to become old, why do I become old? I do not want to be diseased, why is being diseased force upon me? You will get the answers to all these questions. ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And when you get the answers to all these questions then, bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. This fire which is burning in the material world is for everyone, for all those senior government ministers this fire is burning and for the common man on the road who earns his livelihood by labor, for bread, this fire is burning for him also.
It is not that if you get a good post or wealth then this fire will be extinguished. No! This is not the case. We have seen this happening virtually, but I do not wish to take names. That fire is going on, bhava-mahādāvāgni. Why has it been called a fire? Dāvāgni means, the fire that engulfs the forest that is called dāvāgni. Nobody goes into the forest to set it on fire, for the sake of enmity but it is the law of nature that the forest catches fire. Similarly if you situated in the material world, even if you don’t want to it to catch fire, it will still catch fire. Just like there are wars sometimes, a number of wars have taken place, who wants wars? But there is war.
There is use of weapons, diseases and many other things. Your friend becomes your enemy, even your son becomes your enemy. This is the law of nature, this is called bhava-mahādāvāgni. You don’t want to set it on fire but it will still catch fire. So when the heart is cleanses and we understand that, "I am not matter." That is called cleansing the heart. "I am not this material body." Nowadays this material civilization is all based on the bodily concept of life. I think I am Indian, I am brāhmaṇa, I am Bengali, Gujarati and so many other things. Others think I am American, I am this, I am that. All this, we are none of these. These are all entanglements. That is why Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. We are mistakenly thinking ourselves to be this or that, this is the dirt accumulation. That has to be cleansed. All these entanglements will be cleansed. At that time you are on the brahma-bhūta stage.
Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
When you are selfrealized you will understand, "Ahaṁ brahmāsmi", "I am spirit." , "I am not matter, I am not this body." This is explained by the Lord at the beginning,
dehino smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
These are all viewpoints. Because our hearts are not cleansed, there are lot of entanglements, a lot of mistakes we make in leading our lives. This human life that we have got is to get rid of all these entanglements. But if we keep these entanglements as it is and become rich men, what is the gain in that? Clear up the entanglements if life has to be successful and if you keep these entanglements and become a rich man say for twenty or fifty years, or you become poor, it is the same thing.
Some think that I am very poor, how do I become rich? And another person thinks that I have become so rich and yet my desires are not fulfilled. So it is the same thing. All the time anxiety. This was told by Prahlāda Mahārāj to his father when asked, "Son, what is it that you have learned, tell me!" Then, Prahlāda Mahārāj replied, he did not say "father". Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ, "Father you are the best of the demons." 'sura-varya means the best, very powerful demon. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ, this material body that we have accepted, for that this is appropriate. What is?
hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
[Bhāg. 7.5.5]
[Bhāg. 7.5.5]
This material body, we are constantly worried for it.
Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ,
sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt
sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt
This not permanent material body that I have accepted, I have to be constantly full of anxiety for it. And if you want to get rid of this anxiety then,
hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
That is why in our vedic civilization, vānaprastha, going to the forest, pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. This is a scriptural injunction. As soon as you turn fifty years of age go to the forest. Nowadays it is not possible to go to the forest, no practice, so at least come to Vrindavana. We have built a big temple in Vrindavana and there is place to stay. Those who are more than fifty years old, all of you come, stay there, discuss pastimes of the Lord and make life successful. vanaṁ gato yad dharim, it is not enough to go to the forest, that even a monkey stays in the forest. They stay naked and eat fruits also, very sattvic life but each monkey needs one or two dozen female monkeys. Going to the forest in this way is of no use. Go to the forest, harim āśrayeta and take shelter of the Lord. This is prescribed in the scriptures. As far as possible I am trying to give all facilities. I am building an ashrama and a temple also and place to stay. So at least when you turn fifty, this principle that we will never leave our homes, this is not correct. Then
sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt,
hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
[Bhāg. 7.5.5]
hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
[Bhāg. 7.5.5]
This is not vedic civilization. Vedic civilization prescribes varṇāśrama-dharma. This is the real dharma. Four castes and four orders of human life. Four castes- brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras- this must be implemented, otherwise the society is. The brāhmaṇas after acquiring knowledge, will teach control of senses, equanimity, tolerance to others. The kṣatriyas will rule and vaiśyas will grow grains and the śūdras who don’t know anything will provide labor, that’s all. Similarly brahmacarya, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa, we should follow these rules and regulations., then only we can be happy. But just by working hard like dogs and hogs, bring in the money, bring in the bread, this is no civilization. The whole world is spoilt because of this. So therefore we are requesting all of you, please understand this Krishna consciousness movement, it is not manufactured, it is not that we applied our brain and this came out, no! This is not jugglery, it is scientific, supported by scriptures. All of you understand this nicely, accept it and work in such a way that your life can be successful, that is my only request. And all this work can be done very beautifully if only you, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, then your heart will be cleansed.
Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 1]
śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 1]
If you come into this line, then you want bliss, ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. The living entities want bliss, the Lord is blissful. And the living entities who are part and parcel of Krishna also want to be blissful. So,
sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad buddhi-grāhyam atīndriyam
Real bliss is transcendental and not material.
ramante yogino 'nante satyānanda-cid-ātmani
iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate
[Śatanāma-stotra 8]
iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate
[Śatanāma-stotra 8]
This is said in the scriptures in relation to Lord Rāma that, Rāma means Parabrahma, Kṛṣṇa means Parabrahma.
Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
So Lord Rāma and Lord Kṛṣṇa, hare kṛṣṇa hare rāma, there is no difference between them. When you chant the holy names purely, then understand that Lord Ramachandra, Balarāma, any Rāma, Lord, Lord came as Paraśurāma, Balarāma and as Lord Ramachandra, they are all same. so, Nāma-cintāmaṇi kṛṣṇa, by chanting the names, whether you are a devotee of Kṛṣṇa or a devotee of Rāma, just know that Lord Ramachandra and Lord Kṛṣṇa are dancing in your tongue. If you chant the holy names of the Lord with this feeling then your life will be successful.
vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 1]
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 1]
This is the blessing of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and he has said. All of you remain in whatever situation you are in, there is no need to spend any money for this, just see once what are the benefits of chanting the holy names all the time, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. This has also been said by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that if you chant the holy names of the Lord, someone might say that you are mad. Just see he is doing business and he is chanting the holy names. Someone else will say, You have to tolerate all this. To become a devotee of the Lord you have to tolerate a lot. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāj, his own father became his enemy. "Kill this son, he chants the name of the Lord. He doesn’t listen to me." So you make these enemies. But despite having such enemies,
tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror iva sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 3]
taror iva sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
[Śikṣāṣṭaka 3]
Tolerate all this and chant the holy names of the Lord, your life will be successful.
Thank you very much! Hare Krishna!
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!