John Dewey (1859-1952)

Hayagrīva dāsa: Dewey believed that religions are basically myths and that experience is of the utmost necessity. He considered philosophy superior to religion. "The form [in philosophy] ceases to be that of the story told in imaginative and emotional style," he writes, "and becomes that of rational discourse observing the canons of logic." For him, the Vedic accounts of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes would be purely mythical.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is a historical fact; He is not imaginary. The Mahābhārata is accepted by all Indian authorities, especially by the ācāryas who control the spiritual life of India. They do not, however, accept Mr. Dewey's imaginative thinking.

Hayagrīva dāsa: When science began to investigate the phenomenal universe without admitting the proprietorship of God, a breakdown in morality and value ensued. Dewey tried to reassemble these shattered values in a philosophical way, but he, like science, attempted to do so without acknowledging the proprietorship of a Supreme Being.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is simply a form of lunacy because everything has a proprietor. Why should this great cosmic manifestation not have a proprietor? It is natural and logical to accept a proprietor. Who would think that an organized nation has no government? How can a logical man come to such conclusions?

Hayagrīva dāsa: He felt that science dealt a death blow to the orthodox, historical religions as we know them.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: As I have repeatedly explained, religion means accepting the laws of God. The whole cosmic manifestation has a date of creation and is therefore historical. Anything material that has a beginning has a history, but long before this cosmic manifestation was created, religion existed. We are tiny people and know the small history of this world, which extends for some thousands of years, but the history of Brahmā is far different. That history covers billions and billions of earth years. At the same time, our history is different from an ant's history. So, historically speaking, everything is relative according to the living entity computing or experiencing the history. Most people have no information of greater personalities, which we call the demigods, but Vedic literatures inform us that in the higher planetary systems, the standard of life is different and the duration longer. Unless one has thorough knowledge of the entire universe, religions may seem imaginary, but what is imaginary to one may be factual to another. For an ant, the history of man is imaginary. Unfortunately, scientists and philosophers on this planet are thinking in their own terms and taking everything they think to be factual. On the other hand, whatever they cannot conceive, they consider mythological.

Hayagrīva dāsa: Writing in the early part of this century, Dewey felt that it was high time to set aside all superstitious religions. According to him, logic "demands that in imagination we wipe the slate clean and start afresh by asking what would be the idea of the unseen...." In other words, we must define God and religion anew.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam rejects all religions considered to be "cheating religions," because they do not contain perfect knowledge.

"Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhāgavata Purāṇa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Śrī Vyāsadeva, is sufficient in itself for God realization. As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, he becomes attached to the Supreme Lord." (Bhāg. 1.1.2)

The sum and substance of the Bhāgavata religion is the acceptance of God as supreme controller. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (Bhāg. 1.1.1). That is the principle: Brahman is He from whom everything emanates. Unless we know the ultimate source of emanation, our knowledge is imperfect. Our experience tells us that everything has a source of emanation. Similarly, this entire creation has a history and a source from which it has emanated. Just because we are unable to reach that source, we should not think that it is imaginary. There is no question of starting a new religion because religion is always there. Someone must be the supreme controller, and that someone is called God. Dewey may ask, "Well, what is your experience?" We experience inert matter without consciousness, and we experience consciousness. We cannot go beyond this. Above these, there is one controller, a third element, which is the Absolute Truth, the controller of all visible animate and inanimate objects. Why is it difficult to understand this?

Hayagrīva dāsa: In A Common Faith, Dewey writes: "What I have been criticizing is the identification of the ideal with a particular Being, especially when that identification makes necessary the conclusion that this Being is outside of nature, and what I have tried to show is that the ideal itself has its roots in natural conditions "

Śrīla Prabhupāda: God does not arise out of nature. God is the supreme controller in charge of nature. How can anyone think that this great phenomenon which we call nature has no controller? How can anyone think that everything is happening automatically?

Hayagrīva dāsa: Dewey sees God emerging out of man's striving for perfection.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: God is already there, and man's perfection depends on his ability to understand God. It is not that a perfect man can create God through his imagination. Anything created by man is controlled, but God is the supreme controller. If man dies under the control of the Supreme, how can he be said to create or control the Supreme? If he cannot control what is already imposed by God—birth, old age, disease, and death—how can he imagine or create God? First, one should become independent of the laws of God before thinking of creating God.

Hayagrīva dāsa: It appears that Dewey wants to use the word "God" to serve his own ends: promoting his philosophic conception of "the working union of the ideal and actual." He writes: "Use of the words God or divine to convey the union of actual with ideal may protect man from a sense of isolation and from consequent despair or defiance."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Of course, one may define God, but one must be a muni, a very learned man, to define Him properly. For instance, one may say, "God is there," or, "God is great." We can go on from there to define His greatness. This greatness includes ultimate greatness in six opulences: power, wealth, knowledge, fame, beauty, and renunciation. Only God possesses these opulences in complete fullness. When Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet, He proved that He was the strongest, the most influential, the most beautiful and pure, and the most supremely wise. Kṛṣṇa's teachings, Bhagavad-gītā, are still being studied all over the world. Great ācāryas like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbarka, Śaṅkarācārya, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu have all accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. There is complete agreement among the authorities that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no question of mythology. Kṛṣṇa's lifting of Govardhana Hill is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and when speculators read it, they consider it to be mythological. But, really, is it difficult for God to lift a hill? If He is all powerful, what is the difficulty? When God comes and shows His godly powers, we should not consider it mythical.

Hayagrīva dāsa: Unlike Marx and Comte, Dewey rejects humanity as an object of worship. He writes: "Nature produces whatever gives reinforcement and direction but also what occasions discord and confusion. The divine is thus a term of human choice and aspiration."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There is no question of human choice. Can you say that death is your choice? Obviously there is force, and where is that force coming from? No one wants to die, but everyone dies. No one wants to grow old, but everyone grows old. We must understand the origin of this enforcement. The supreme authority, the supreme force, is God. You may call this God "nature," or whatever, but you must admit that there is something supreme controlling you. How can we philosophize and imagine that man can become God?

Hayagrīva dāsa: Dewey writes that "a humanistic religion, if it excludes our relationship to nature, is pale and thin, as it is presumptuous, when it takes humanity as an object of worship."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: For a God conscious person, everything is worshipable, even an ant. But the supremely worshipable is God: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Some people think that nature is the supreme, but those who are aware of God know that God is the controller of nature also. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram, "This material nature is working under My direction, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings." (Bg. 9.10) Nature is only matter, and matter cannot act independently. Matter is being handled and controlled by a living being, who is the superior nature. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (Bg. 7.4). Earth, water, air, fire, and so forth constitute inferior nature. Above and beyond this is the superior nature. The living entities are finite controllers, but above them is another controller, the supreme controller who is God. It is very easy to understand. There are two natures: an active and an inactive nature. Above both of these natures is an active personality who is controlling both.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: As far as his methodology is concerned, Dewey believed that practical consequences are the only valid test of truth. He claimed that the proof of an idea consists in its being subject to predictable results.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If an idea is concocted, its results cannot be ascertained. If it is factual, the results can be predicted.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: For Dewey, the object of inquiry is belief itself. Because we want something to believe in, we ask questions. This is the nature of inquiry.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The Vedānta-sūtra advises us to find out the ultimate cause of everything, to inquire into the Absolute Truth. But inquiries should be directed to a person who knows. Otherwise, what is the use in inquiring? The Vedas advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master, a guru, if we want to find the truth. Unfortunately, at the present moment, there are many pseudo gurus; therefore we have to add this word "bona fide." Otherwise, the word guru means bona fide, because one who is not bona fide cannot be a guru. Now, when we speak of inquiry, we mean learning the truth. Therefore we should inquire from one who knows the truth, otherwise our inquiry has no validity. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him." (Bg. 4.34) This is the Vedic injunction. The inquiry should be genuine, and the answer should come from a genuine person.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey believes that the final outcome of inquiry is the fulfillment of human needs. By practical action, we can change the external environment.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Unless a human being inquires about the Absolute Truth, he is not considered sufficiently developed in his human form. For the consciousness to be developed, one must inquire about the self, asking, "What am I?" If this question is not asked, he is still in ignorance.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey felt that by inquiry, we can determine what is wrong with our environment, act to change it, and fulfill human needs.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If a person is serious, inquiry will clear up everything. If he inquires about the aim of human life, he is intelligent. It is not possible for animals to ask these questions. Animals are only eating, sleeping, defending, and mating.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: But should the aim of our inquiry be to change our external environment?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If you are seriously inquiring, and if you know things as they are, you will change your activities. We are preaching that it is our business to know Kṛṣṇa. If people take this movement seriously, their entire mode of living will be changed. This is happening now. Previously, our students were leading a certain undesirable type of life, and since they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their entire lives have been changed.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Then, setting aside trying to improve the environment, we should first try to change our consciousness?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is the consciousness that needs to be changed, either by hearing from authority, or by circumstances. There are two processes by which knowledge can be attained—by hearing, and by direct experience. An intelligent person can understand by hearing. He knows that if he acts in a such a way, he will fall into danger. So he learns by listening to authorities. A less intelligent man has to experience an awkward or dangerous position in order to change his consciousness. For him, hearing is not sufficient. Of the two processes, learning by hearing is better. It is therefore our process to approach the bona fide teacher and learn from him. That is the process of brahmacarya. It is not that we have to learn by practical experience. The experience is already there. We only have to hear of it and accept it; then it becomes easier. We should not say, "Let me fall into the ditch, then I shall cry." Better we take good advice and avoid the ditch altogether.

Hayagrīva dāsa: In the realm of philosophy and religion, Dewey believes that certainty is impossible. He writes: "Any philosophy that in its quest for certainty ignores the reality of the uncertain in the ongoing processes of nature, denies the conditions out of which it arises."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There is uncertainty when you do not accept the reality. The reality is God, and God explains how nature is working. If we do not accept His explanation, our position is very precarious, very uncertain. But if God comes and reveals Himself and His activities, and we consider them mythological, how can we be convinced? How can we ever be certain?

Hayagrīva dāsa: For Dewey, there is but one sure road of access to truth: what he calls "the road of patient, cooperative inquiry operating by means of observation, experiment, record, and controlled reflection."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The record is there in the Mahābhārata, and those who have seen have confirmed it. Vyāsadeva, Nārada, and Arjuna all confirm that everything is there in the record, but if people do not believe, how can they be convinced? Conditioned living entities do not have the perfect senses to see, and if they remain unconvinced, they will always live in darkness. They may go on imagining in the dark, but they will never attain perfect knowledge in this way.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey set down five steps for solving problems and attaining truths: we observe a problem and consider its nature; we intellectualize and analyze it; we hypothesize and consider solutions; we analyze our hypothesis according to past experience, and choose possible solutions; and we put the solutions into practice.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Our process for solving problems is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. "O son of Kuntī, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." (Bg. 9.31) When we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, our problems are solved. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bg. 18.78). Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all mystic power. He is yogeśvaraḥ. It is not the bhakta's business to strive to become a yogī; rather, he takes shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is yogeśvaraḥ, the master of all mystic power. We consider this to be the solution to all our problems.

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it." (Bg. 7.14) There are various methods for solving problems, but the best method is to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. Then all problems are solved.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: On the social platform as well?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is solved. For instance, the Pāṇḍavas had a political problem, and when they took shelter of Kṛṣṇa, their political and social problems were solved.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: For Dewey, truth must satisfy human needs and improve social conditions. He sees truth as a practical tool.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We are the ones who have created social problems. Kṛṣṇa is perfect, andwhatever Kṛṣṇa has created is perfect. Oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Things appear to be imperfect because we disobey Kṛṣṇa's orders. If we remain faithful to Kṛṣṇa, there are no problems. People speak of truth, but unfortunately, they do not know the truth.

"Persons who are strongly entrapped by the consciousness of enjoying material life, and who have therefore accepted as their leader or guru a similar blind man attached to external sense objects, cannot understand that the goal of life is to return home, back to Godhead, and engage in the service of Lord Viṣṇu. As blind men guided by another blind man miss the right path and fall into a ditch, materially attached men led by another materially attached man are bound by the ropes of fruitive labor, which are made of very strong cords, and they continue again and again in materialistic life, suffering the threefold miseries." (Bhāg. 7.5.31) The ultimate truth, the ultimate objective, is Viṣṇu. Unfortunately, people are trying to solve the problems of this world without referring to Viṣṇu. Of course, this is not possible.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: How does worship of Viṣṇu solve social problems?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Man who executes this varṇāśrama-dharma satisfies Viṣṇu. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, and śūdras have various prescribed duties. If they follow them, all problems are solved. Unfortunately, in India this varṇāśrama-dharma has been killed. Now everyone is a śūdrā. The word śūdra refers to an unintelligent person. Since everyone is unintelligent, how can they solve problems? What can they do? They are trying to run a democratic government according to the votes of śūdrās, but śūdrās cannot solve anything. Once, America belonged to the red Indians, but they did not develop it. Why couldn't they improve their condition? The land and everything else was there. But when the Europeans came, they developed the land. Śūdras cannot actualize anything. If we once again establish the varṇāśrama-dharma, all problems will be solved. That was the plan of my Guru Mahārāja. Daiva-varṇāśrama refers to that which is stated by Kṛṣṇa. The varṇas are not established by birth, but by qualification. By qualification, one is a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra. By following the course prescribed for our varṇa, we can satisfy Lord Viṣṇu and in this way be happy.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey writes: "The good man is the man who no matter how morally worthy he has been, is moving to become better. Growth itself is the only moral end."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In the beginning, a devotee may still do something wrong, but because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is accepted as a sādhu.

"Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service, he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated." (Bg. 9.30) There may be many discrepancies in one's life, but if one's heart is in the right place, if he is working for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is considered a sādhu, even though he has not corrected his bad habits. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmāśaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. "He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace." (Bg. 9.31) Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all his bad habits will be rectified very soon.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: In other words, he is striving to improve his moral condition?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. If one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his morality will gradually develop.

"All the demigods and their exalted qualities, such as religion, knowledge, and renunciation, become manifest in the body of one who has developed unalloyed devotion for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vāsudeva." (Bhāg. 5.18.12) All good qualities will automatically come. We should stick to the four regulative principles: avoiding illicit sex, intoxication, meat eating, and gambling. And we should chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. By abiding by the orders of the spiritual master, everything will automatically develop. All good moral qualities will follow. It is not that we have to develop these qualities separately or independently. All good qualities are already there in the spirit soul, but presently they are covered by material contamination. When we are purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all these original qualities emerge. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (Bhakti-rasāmṛta sindhu, 1.1.12). We should purify our senses by engaging them in the service of the master of the senses, Kṛṣṇa. That is the process of bhakti.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey did not believe in absolute good or evil; each situation must be treated individually.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Whatever is done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, and whatever is done for something other than Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction is useless, although it may be ethically correct.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: He felt that the greatest good is the elimination of the greatest evil. It is the fulfillment of man's greatest needs.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The highest objective is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. By becoming a Vaiṣṇava, we attain the highest perfection of human life. The greatest need is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, pure, supreme consciousness. Every living entity is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ. "The living entities in this conditioned world are my eternal fragmental parts." (Bg. 15.7) Therefore we must always remember that, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, it is our duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. In perverted consciousness, we think, "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God." That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey believed that we should not choose good or evil simply on the basis of some theory. We should choose in order to alleviate specific evils.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The virāṭ-rūpa, the universal form of the Lord, was manifest before Arjuna. Arjuna then saw that everything within the universe is part and parcel of that virāṭ-rūpa, within which everything has a function, a duty. When we work according to that function, problems are automatically solved.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: For Dewey, we can never attain absolute certainty or perfection. We can only attain higher levels of moral progress.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This means that he has no knowledge of absolute perfection.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: The world can be made better by man's efforts, but perfection in the world is not possible.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. This world is so made that if you perfect it today, tomorrow it will deteriorate. Therefore in one sense you cannot make it perfect. But you can improve it.

"In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium." (Bg. 4.8) Any bad condition can be improved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa consciousness are the same. If you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are living with Kṛṣṇa, and if you are living with Kṛṣṇa, then what is your fear? On the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna was fearless because Kṛṣṇa was beside him.

"For one who has accepted the boat of the lotus feet of the Lord, who is the shelter of the cosmic manifestation and is famous as Mukunda, the giver of liberation, the ocean of the material world is like the water contained in a calf’s hoofprint. Vaikuṇṭha is his goal, not the place where there is danger at every step." (Bhāg. 10.14.58) In this material world, there is danger at every step, but as soon as we understand Kṛṣṇa, we become eligible to be transferred to the spiritual world.

"One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." (Bg. 4.9)

Śyāmasundara dāsa: So people are removed from all danger, or evil, by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Certainly. Therefore this is the best welfare activity for the entire world. By other means, people may be able to give some temporary benefit or temporary relief, but the situation will again deteriorate. You may give charity to a needy man, and this charity will serve him for a temporary period, but if you give him Kṛṣṇa premā he is immediately transferred to the spiritual world. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is called the most munificent incarnation because He has delivered Kṛṣṇa premā to the world. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: But the goal of the utilitarians is to achieve what the people desire and require.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The people desire and require happiness, but they are searching for it in temporary things.

"Lord Rsabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one's heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness, and which continues forever." (Bhāg. 5.5.1) Purify your existence, and you will attain eternal happiness and bliss. Everyone is working hard for happiness, but how can happiness be attained in a diseased condition? First the disease must be cured because it is an impediment to happiness. The real disease is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (Bg. 13.9): birth, old age, disease, and death. Cure these, and you will attain real happiness. Whatever you may desire, the ultimate end is happiness. Unfortunately, a diseased person is thinking, "I am happy." This is false happiness. Although you are dying, you are thinking that you are happy. This is called a fool's paradise.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey felt that the desirable course of action should meet certain conditions subject to prediction, and should be based on judgments or appraisals that might serve as guidelines to future activity.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is predictable: You say, "I don't want to die." I say, "Come to this position, and you will not die."

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Is there some experience that would show this to be a predictable result?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. You might not have the experience, but your superiors do.

"From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again." (Bg. 8.16) If we go to Kṛṣṇa, we will never come back to this material world again. Who can excel Kṛṣṇa's experience? Since He knows past, present, and future, it is to our good to accept His instructions.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey would recommend basing our judgments on personal experience.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We may not have personal experience, but we can take the advice of a person who does. Such experience is as good as our own. You may not have gone to New York, but because others have purchased tickets there and gone and returned, you can take advantage of their experience and learn something about that place.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey claims that value exists only where there is satisfaction.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Unless you have faith in a person, how can you be satisfied? You should find a person in whom you can place your faith. Who can be a better person than Kṛṣṇa?

Śyāmasundara dāsa: If certain conditions are met, satisfaction is transformed into value. If my hunger is satisfied by eating certain food, that food is given value.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa who gives that value. In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna was refusing to fight, but because he valued Kṛṣṇa and was satisfied by his faith in Kṛṣṇa, he was victorious.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: For Dewey, moral laws may serve as guidelines for action. They are comparable to physical laws, in that if I act in a certain way, I can expect a certain result.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We prescribe:

"In the beginning, the neophyte devotee must have a preliminary desire for self-realization. This will bring him to the stage of trying to associate with persons who are spiritually elevated. In the next stage, he becomes initiated by an elevated spiritual master, and, under his instruction, begins the process of devotional service. By execution of devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master, he becomes free from all material attachment, attains steadiness in self-realization, and acquires a taste for hearing about the Absolute Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. This taste leads him further forward to attachment for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is matured in bhāva, or the preliminary stage of transcendental love of God. Real love for God is called premā, the highest perfectional stage of life." (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu [1.4.15-16]) If you follow one step after the other, you get the results. If you have faith, and associate with the devotees, you will be eager to execute devotional service. Then all misgivings are eradicated, and your faith becomes firm. Unless you experience the next result, how can you make progress? Moral guidelines are also given by Rūpa Gosvāmī:

"There are six principles favorable to the execution of pure devotional service: being enthusiastic, endeavoring with confidence, being patient, acting according to regulative principles [such as śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam—hearing, chanting, and remembering Kṛṣṇa], abandoning the association of nondevotees, and following in the footsteps of the previous acāryās. These six principles undoubtedly assure the complete success of pure devotional service." (Upadeśāmṛta, 3) We should be patient, enthusiastic, and firmly convinced. We should be fair in our dealings, and should associate with saintly persons. In this way, we can advance.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Then the results follow these guidelines predictably and automatically?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, one after another. A teacher instructs his students, and when they realize one instruction, he gives another, then another. In this way, the students can make progress. Consider the guidelines. First of all, we must be enthusiastic. Unless we are enthusiastic, how can we enter into any activity? We should also be patient. We should not think, "Oh, I am working so hard, but am getting no results." The results will come in time. We should also have firm conviction that because we have taken the path of the mahājanas, the path prescribed by Kṛṣṇa, success is imminent. Although success may be delayed, it doesn't really matter. We must know that success will definitely come. We must also perform our prescribed duties fairly and in good faith. And we should also associate with saintly people. This will give us impetus. If we follow these guidelines, the result is certain and predictable.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey believes that moral laws are not inflexible absolute rules that never permit exceptions.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The real moral law is the law of the Supreme. In Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa described many different types of yoga: dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, and so on. However, at the end, He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. "Abandon all these dharmas and surrender unto Me." (Bg. 18.66) Kṛṣṇa's word is the ultimate morality. Vaiṣṇavas do not consider this or that moral or immoral. Whatever Kṛṣṇa or His representative orders is moral. That is our position.

Śyāmasundara dāsa: Dewey claims that we place value upon that which we must act on.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, there is certainly value in Kṛṣṇa, and because Arjuna followed the decision of Kṛṣṇa, he became victorious, enjoyed his kingdom, and became a famous devotee. These were practical results of his activities. Parīkṣit Mahārāja compared the battle of Kurukṣetra to a great ocean in which Bhīṣma, Droṇa, Karṇa, and others were like great sharks. It was important for his grandfather, Arjuna, to cross that ocean, which was dangerously infested with many ferocious fish. Although this was very difficult, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa it was possible.

"Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion." (Bg. 18.78)